Suburban Senshi IRC Chat #546: “Vindication!”
#546: “Vindication!”

*** Now talking in #suburbansenshi
*** Topic is '-= Finally, someone GETS IT =-'
[09:20] * --=[ SpeedRcrX ]=-- wipes a tear from her eye

[09:20] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Normally I don't respond to visitor comments and [BLEEP], or get all weepy and sentimental (unless I'm puttin' the moves on Michi) but I saw this one from Ryuutchi and I just HAD to:

Mmmm, I personally did feel sorry for Haruka and Michiru at the end of Stars. They may have thought they were doing the right thing (as they did throughout the entire series), and they miscalculated. They took the only shot they could think of at Galaxia and it didn't work.

I mean really, it was either turn on their teammates and and wait to get a good shot at Galaxia, or, yanno, leave everything to Sailor Moon. And who really wants to do that?

[09:22] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> EXACTLY
[09:22] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> EXACTLY
[09:22] * --=[ SpeedRcrX ]=-- points to it and nods in righteousness

[09:23] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Finally someone sees it!
[09:23] * --=[ SpeedRcrX ]=-- grabs a mic, and a spotlight illuminates her

[09:23] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> The pain, the struggle, the sacrifice, finally the long years of thankless service have been rewarded!!
[09:24] * --=[ SpeedRcrX ]=-- drops to her knees

[09:24] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Thank you so much
[09:25] <FireFly_9> Yes, well forgive me for being bitter about the attempted vapourizations and being ripped to shreds by Galaxia's bracelets.
[09:26] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Man you would have been reconstituted
[09:26] <FireFly_9> And you knew that at the time?
[09:26] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Hell yes
[09:26] <FireFly_9> So... you knew that the removal of one's starseed was a non-lethal tactic?
[09:27] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> yeah, it woulda been all good
[09:27] <FireFly_9> So, you decided to use a nonlethal tactic on Galaxia
[09:27] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> ...
[09:27] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> ...
[09:27] * FireFly_9 waits

[09:27] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Oh like we would have put the [BLEEP] back for HER
[09:28] <FireFly_9> Hah
[09:28] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Actually, 'Taru-chan, the presence of the Anima-mates sorta IMPLIES that the loss of a Starseed was not a permanently fatal thing, you know
[09:29] * FireFly_9 blinks

[09:29] <FireFly_9> Oh, as if you took that into consideration beforehand!
[09:30] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> ...Of course I did!
[09:30] <FireFly_9> You're just engaging in a little self-justifying retconning!
[09:31] * --=[ SpeedRcrX ]=-- taps the side of her head

[09:31] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> You know full well I'm not an idiot, I just take things loose and easy at home
[09:31] <FireFly_9> I refuse to believe you knew what you were doing beyond the simplistic notion of "Starseed Removal = Dead Eenemy / Ally"
[09:32] <FireFly_9> I've spoken to Mizuno-san, I know you tend to favour headstrong rushes with little to no forethought... at this point you've had almost a decade to make up your rationalizations for what happened.
[09:33] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Man
[09:33] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Yeah I kicked your ass, and I wanted to kick your as before, but it wasn't out of malice, I was trying to [BLEEP]ING SAVE THE WORLD... *YOU* were the one who wanted to save the world by DESTROYING it
[09:34] <FireFly_9> My only offensive attack at the time was a world smasher! I had NO OTHER RECOURSE! It wasn't as if I could
[09:35] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> say 'Silence Glaive Surprise'?
[09:35] <FireFly_9> That attack too can smash the world if applied at full power... at the time of my awakening I had not remembered it...
[09:36] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Uh-huh, you forgot the one thing that would result in you NOT genociding the entire human race
[09:36] <FireFly_9> My body had just been *ripped apart*... my awakening was somewhat traumatic you know...
[09:37] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> That's right, blame the violent forcible discorporation for your apocalyptic tendencies...
[09:38] <FireFly_9> I am the soldier of Ruin. People EXPECT me to behave that way. You are the soldier of WIND. At most, by that description, one could reasonably expect YOU to be flatulent.
[09:38] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> ...
[09:38] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Underneath that stolid gothy veneer you're a little punk, you know that
[09:40] *** =^catablanca^= [arty@ip6943.ai.co.jp] has joined #suburbansenshi

[09:40] <spiritflame> Irasshai =^catablanca^=
[09:40] <=^catablanca^=> AGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH
[09:40] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Whassup cat-man?
[09:40] <FireFly_9> Good morning Artemis!
[09:41] <=^catablanca^=> Lunalunaluna...
[09:41] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> ?
[09:41] <=^catablanca^=> She saw Pretty Guardian Episode 28 and now thinks I manipulated Mako-chan to get placed.... where I was placed....
[09:42] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> LOL so you got to experience her "talents" firsthand eh
[09:42] * FireFly_9 rolls her eyes

[09:43] *** Cést_la_V [GldnGoddess@ip6942.ai.co.jp] has joined #suburbansenshi

[09:43] <spiritflame> Irasshai Cést_la_V
[09:42] <=^catablanca^=> It's NOT funny! Reports from the future indicate Luna's deliberately injected herself with RABIES just so she could be VICIOUS enough to punish me!
[09:43] * =^catablanca^= cries

[09:43] <Cést_la_V> Don't worry, Artemis, I'll hide you
[09:45] <=^catablanca^=> Yeah Mina, thanks
[09:50] <FireFly_9> Minako-san...
[09:50] <Cést_la_V> ?
[09:50] <FireFly_9> Did any of you know beforehand that the removal of a starseed was anything less than lethal?
[09:51] <Cést_la_V> ...We never really thought about it at the time...
[09:51] <Cést_la_V> But I guess we thought it was fatal from the way the Animamates behaved and the way Seiya-tachi were going on about it
[09:52] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Oh right like the PRESENCE of the animamates didn't clue you in there was life after Starseed extraction
[09:52] <Cést_la_V> You and I BOTH know what that felt like!! Did you feel very alive??
[09:53] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> I was still semi-conscious!
[09:53] <FireFly_9> You are ALWAYS Semi-conscious, Haruka-poppa.
[09:53] * Cést_la_V giggles

[09:53] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Hey butt out of this, Neko! Doesn't Doctor X have to "keep" you or something?
[09:54] <Cést_la_V> It's none of your Earwax!
[09:55] <FireFly_9> "'Beeswax'".
[09:55] <Cést_la_V> That too!!
[09:55] * Cést_la_V points to Haruka-san

[09:55] <Cést_la_V> As long as we're talking about what happened with Galaxia, you know it's YOUR fault we didn't ally with the Starlights earlier and maybe have a better shot of taking out Galaxia!!
[09:56] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Oh, right, like that woudl have worked. Baka Usagi was always reaching out to people like they were stray puppies or something, OUR job was to protect her, and we did it
[09:57] <Cést_la_V> Excuse me, but *I'm* the leader of the Princess' Personal Guard, and I stood by her decision!!
[09:57] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> More like you just blindly go along with everything she says
[09:58] <Cést_la_V> Nandatto...
[09:58] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> I was protecting her from HERSELF, she didn't know what the [BLEEP] she was doing
[09:59] <Cést_la_V> I admit Usagi-chan can sometimes be slow, but... but she always does what she thinks is right!
[10:00] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> SO DO I and I get nothing but [BLEEP] from you people
[10:00] <Cést_la_V> Because your idea of right is way off place!!
[10:01] <FireFly_9> "Off base."
[10:02] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Yeah well frankly I'm older, and smarter (despite the way I act at home) and I KNOW WHAT'S RIGHT! Can you honestly say, when you first met Usagi, that you thought she was the sharpest tool in the shed?
[10:03] <Cést_la_V> ...
[10:03] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Would you really trust HER to handle something STRATEGIC like forging an alliance?
[10:03] <Cést_la_V> Hah! SHE was actually able to reach out to the Starlights where all YOU did was tick them off!!
[10:04] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> I was afraid that if she had reached out too far they would have fu[BLEEP]ing CUT HER ARM OFF
[10:04] <Cést_la_V> We would have stopped them if they'd tried anything
[10:05] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Screw that, you act pre-emptively to fend off threats
[10:05] <Cést_la_V> THAT kind of thinking results in us being isolated and having no allies when things get bad!! If all 10 senshi PLUS the lights had gotten together and made a PLAN
[10:06] <FireFly_9> Yes, the Lights had valuable intelligence information we DIDN'T get until it was almost too late to be useful
[10:06] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> You people suck ok
[10:06] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Usagi can't be trusted to make the big decisions, she's a dingbat
[10:07] <Cést_la_V> I trust her with my LIFE!
[10:07] <Cést_la_V> And she IS the princess, and we are duty-bound to obey
[10:07] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Uh-huh, so if ditz girl told you guys to leap off a cliff, would you do it blindly without making DAMN sure she had a reason other than getting you all killed
[10:08] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Following orders is one thing, but not thinking about them first is CRAZY
[10:08] <Cést_la_V> Ano...
[10:08] <Cést_la_V> Usagi-chan may not be the smartest, but in the end, SHE won the day
[10:09] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Oh so the ends justify the means
[10:10] <Cést_la_V> You're oversimplifying
[10:10] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> And you're just overly simple
[10:11] <Cést_la_V> Naniyo....
[10:11] <=^catablanca^=> Whoawhoawhoa GUYS we're all friends here
[10:12] <Cést_la_V> ...
[10:12] <FireFly_9> Artemis is right... this is a very old argument that won't be resolved here...
[10:13] *** Dr_Xadium [user-19fasjd.dsl.xadiumproductions.com] has joined #suburbansenshi

[10:13] *** spiritflame sets mode +o Dr_Xadium

[10:13] <spiritflame> Irasshai Dr_Xadium
[10:13] * Dr_Xadium yawns

[10:13] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Oh look, Neko-chan, it's your "keeper"
[10:13] <Dr_Xadium> ?
[10:13] <Cést_la_V> Ignore her, she's being bitter
[10:13] <Dr_Xadium> What...
[10:14] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> I've been reading the comments, so is it true you "keep" Ms. Aino once a week Doc
[10:14] <Dr_Xadium> ...
[10:14] <Dr_Xadium> For some reason I like the sound of "Ms. Aino"...
[10:15] <Cést_la_V> ano... it's generally considered rude to be more formal to someone you're less formal with...
[10:15] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Oh? How *much* "less formal"?
[10:15] <Cést_la_V> Don't you change the subject!!
[10:15] <Dr_Xadium> But it sounds classy to my ears...
[10:15] * Dr_Xadium attempts to say "Ms. Aino" suavely

[10:15] <Cést_la_V> ::giggles::
[10:18] * Cést_la_V gets serious

[10:19] <Cést_la_V> X-chan, forget that! Settle this! Who's right, Haruka-san or me??
[10:19] * Dr_Xadium has no idea what you're talking about

[10:20] * Cést_la_V looks at Xadium-chan

[10:20] <Cést_la_V> Do you EVEN HAVE TO CHOOSE?
[10:20] <Dr_Xadium> Mina, I'm not gonna get into whatever this is, for all I know you two are talking about the best way to dismember me
[10:21] <Cést_la_V> Haruka-san is the only homicidal one here
[10:21] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> FOR. THE. LAST. DAMN. TIME. I. TOOK. NO. PLEASURE. IN. HURTING. ANY. OF. YOU.
[10:22] <Dr_Xadium> ...
[10:22] <Dr_Xadium> rei.bot, toss me a transcript so I know what all this is about
[10:22] <spiritflame> dcc sending
[10:23] <=^catablanca^=> Uhh guys I hate to butt in but I really wanna get outta here before Luna tracks me down
[10:23] * Dr_Xadium reads

[10:23] <Cést_la_V> Don't worry I'll help you
[10:23] <Dr_Xadium> I can't stick my nose in, this is internal Senshi affairs
[10:24] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> WTF are you, the damn Federation of Planets
[10:24] <Dr_Xadium> Time Lords were noninterventionists long before Captain McBaldy and the Space Cadets
[10:24] <Dr_Xadium> Besides, I'm biased, you KNOW what I think about what you did in Stars
[10:25] * --=[ SpeedRcrX ]=-- is genuinely pissed off

[10:25] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Look. When I started being a senshi, I DIDN'T WANT to HURT ANYONE! Ask Michi! SHE was the one who had to FORCE me to fight!
[10:26] <Cést_la_V> I didn't know that about Haruka-san...
[10:26] <FireFly_9> It's just more hyperbole...
[10:26] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> No, I swear to god it's true.
[10:26] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> It was a hard choice to accept my destiny... but when I did, I took on ALL the responsibilities that brought with it, which meant making the HARD CHOICES so you kids could be safe and free to go around MOCKING MY ASS
[10:28] <FireFly_9> You were overzealous!
[10:28] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> I TOOK MY JOB SERIOUSLY
[10:28] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> Did I ever make like 20 minute long stupid intro speeches? Did I run around like an idiot playing along with the Daimon of the week? I went in there, quickly announced myself and KICKED ASS for the GOOD OF THE WORLD
[10:29] <Dr_Xadium> All right, I think it's time for this argument to be settled once and for all...
[10:29] <Cést_la_V> Like in the SuperS game where we battle for superiority??
[10:30] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> I'd wipe the floor with you, smiley girl
[10:30] <Dr_Xadium> Look... I can't solve this, and violence won't really solve it...
[10:30] <Dr_Xadium> I think a large pool of neutral observers is required...
[10:31] <spiritflame> you plan a poll yes
[10:32] <Dr_Xadium> Indeed, this is a matter for the fans
[10:32] <FireFly_9> The phraseology of the question is paramount to avoid inherent bias.
[10:32] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> "Were Haruka-tachi justified in their actions"
[10:33] <FireFly_9> Too broad, if they agreed with some of your actions but not all they would still have to vote yes.
[10:33] <Cést_la_V> "Who do you believe had the best strategy, Usagi-chan or Haruka-tachi??"
[10:34] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> That totally sidesteps our motives AND it skews things based on the known outcome
[10:34] <Dr_Xadium> "Haruka and Michiru's actions in S and Stars: Did the ends justify the means?"
[10:35] <=^catablanca^=> But what if they agreed with the actions in Stars but not in S, or vice versa?
[10:36] <Cést_la_V> Making poll questions is hard
[10:37] <FireFly_9> Haruka and Michiru's attitude in S and Stars:
[10:37] <FireFly_9> 1- They went overboard in doing their duty
[10:37] <FireFly_9> 2 - Their actions were justified given the circumstances
[10:40] <--=[ SpeedRcrX ]=--> ...fine
[10:40] <Cést_la_V> I suppose it's as neutral as it's going to be...
[10:40] <Dr_Xadium> Very well then... so let it be written, and so let it be done... I'll let the poll run to 500 votes, and we'll settle the issue for all time.
[10:41] * Cést_la_V eyes Haruka-san warily

[10:42] * --=[ SpeedRcrX ]=-- looks to Hotaru wearily

[10:42] <FireFly_9> I look forward to the people's verdict.
*** Disconnected





 






I noticed the poll results on the left of the channel. I can only hope that it is just a case of sex and violence over-riding people's sense of logic to accept Haruka's and Michiru's views. They would have earned several executions if they were in even the hard core Warhammer 40k human forces for insubordination, aiding enemy forces against your own forces and allies, fraternizing with demonic forces, and others related to treason. It would seem that it would be easy for a classic Satan with contracts for souls to show up and get people to sign without any hesitation or even bothering to look very carefully at the fine print or the wording of the contract. Oh well, congratulations Haruka and Michiru, your beauty and "kewlness factor" did for you what lawyers did for O.J. Simpson.

DJ • 05/02/04 10:27pm

Since no one is correctly answering the poll...

1) Yes, they did go overboard. The seem to regard the term soldiers as simply meaning "fanatic killers". They seemed to forget that gathering intelligence is the the most important thing to make sure you got your target in the most vulnerable position and you are in the most powerful position. Also, see number 2.

2) No, their actions were not justified in their circumstances. Unfortunately this goes back to how a lot of people think that small unit soldiers are supposed to be complete lone wolf killers and are "kewl". Maybe they should have Setuna go pick up some translated training manuals for small units from northern Europe. They emphasize flexible thinking both in and out of combat. People skills (how to "work people" and tell when there is something "off" about them) would be another thing they could use, so perhaps Setsuna could pick up some translated training manuals of Special Forces since they are supposed to do that sort of thing.

Given the lack of knowledge at the time, it would have been a good assumption that anyone who had their soul (star crystal) sucked out is probably in condition not much better than an undead (or enslaved by their soul) and that those who have mastered such powers are likely to be immune or highly resistant to the same thing done to them given that it is their magic specialty.

On a more amusing note, I suspect that if the MIB movie test for recruits were given (the one with weird chairs and the combat simulator) only Haruka and Michiru would be given the "red flash" treatment.

DJ • 05/01/04 10:48pm

Doesn't that usually imply giving YOUR life to save the world? Not first your 'so called daughter' then the guardian of time, THEN you go with your lover?

Seiya Kou [e-mail] • 04/28/04 07:02am

Okay, personaly, if I were a solider and it were my job to protect a princess, the Princess of the Universe! I would be very weary of new soliders I knew nothing about and strange guys/transvestites hanging around her. Usagi is not willing to save the world no matter what. She'd rather let everything end then kill Mamoru.

Haruka is so self-less she would kill her best friend, daughter, and in the end dying with her lover, to save the world. Or at least give it a shot. Haruka and Michiru and examples of perfect solider in my own thoughts. There may have been means of defeating Galaxia, but Haruka and Michiru were not willing to risk the ENTIRE UNIVERSE to see how tree-hugging would work out.

Moonstar [e-mail] • 04/27/04 09:47pm

I must say, it's a bit going over bord to kill your firends while you know that taking Galaxia's star seed will not defeat her entirely. I mean, think about it, what if Galaxia desided to do as she did in the manga and get Sailor Saturn and Pluto on her side? Saturn could have gone and blew up everything without the senshi being able to do squat because they'd be frozen in time thanks to Setsuna!
On a final note, maybe her and Michiru could have been just a little nicer to the inners, give them a hand once and a while, allow them to work with the Starlights to get infromation needed? I'm sure you get the point I'm going for....

Seiya Kou [e-mail] • 04/27/04 08:01pm

Haruka "Sailor Ur-anus" Tenoe IS the Senshi of FLATULENCE!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

On a different note, personally I thought the Outers were always far too xenophobic, even during "Supers". I mean, hell, Uranus and Neptune almost seemed to hate the Inners. Setsuna at least tried to help a little and keep an open mind.

Solarchos [e-mail] • 04/27/04 07:35pm

well...I kinda agree with haruka, but still....

Sailor Q [e-mail] • 04/27/04 06:29pm

Whatever the outcome of the poll, Haruka, know that I for one will continue to believe you did what you thought was best.

After all, the greatest sacrifice in that situation would be that of one's friends and lovers, But when weighed between the hanful of people you care most for and the /entire world/, well... you can see where I'm going.

Ryuutchi • 04/27/04 02:57pm



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