Suburban Senshi IRC Chat #1482 - “Debating Degrees of Wrongness (serious)”
IRC Chat #1482

“Debating Degrees of Wrongness (serious)”


[20:52] *** Sun Feb 15 2009 - LOGGING START ***
[20:52] *** Topic is - Being a bit serious for once :O -
[20:52] *** Set by @Sakura Xadium Aino on Sun Feb 15 20:52 2009

[20:53] <@SpeedRcrX> So... this is a dilemma I find myself in
[20:53] <// J_Daito //> Whether or not to kick Aino's ass for what she posted about you in the Canadian press?
[20:53] <@SpeedRcrX> Man I'll deal with that later
[20:53] <@SpeedRcrX> This is serious to me as a gamer and a person
[20:53] <// J_Daito //> What is it
[20:54] <@SpeedRcrX> Okay, the other day I found out there's a big upset on the net because some hentai exporter was deeling a rape sim on Amazon.
[20:54] <// J_Daito //> ORLY
[20:54] <@SpeedRcrX> :/
[20:54] <@SpeedRcrX> perhaps you are the wrong f[BLEEP]king person to be talking to about this
[20:54] <// J_Daito //> <-- is evil.
[20:54] <@SpeedRcrX> Well
[20:55] <@SpeedRcrX> can you like, put that aside for a minute
[20:55] <// J_Daito //> Not really
[20:55] * @SpeedRcrX sighs
[20:55] <@SpeedRcrX> the point is, people wanted to ban this game
[20:55] <@SpeedRcrX> and I was /am right there with them
[20:55] <@SpeedRcrX> I don't think rape should be encouraged or simulated
[20:56] <// J_Daito //> So what's bugging you
[20:56] <@SpeedRcrX> Well there are people who say it should be left alone because it's no different than "murder simulator" Grand Theft Auto.
[20:56] <@SpeedRcrX> And this is what f[BLEEP]ked me up and made me stop for a second.
[20:57] <// J_Daito //> AHH. Because you, of course, *LOVE* GTA.
[20:57] <@SpeedRcrX> Exactly.
[20:57] <@SpeedRcrX> I don't think of GTA as doing harm, because I think any sufficiently healthy person would be able to tell the difference between pixels being shot up in a game and the consequences in real life.
[20:58] <@SpeedRcrX> But yet, while I give it a pass, when I see Rape sims I immediately want to bring the hammer down, no questions asked.
[20:58] <@SpeedRcrX> So... what am I?
[20:59] <@SpeedRcrX> Am I wrong to condemn one without condeming the other. Do I really place Rape and Murder on different pedestals in terms of "wrongness?"
[20:59] <// J_Daito //> Well, you wouldn't kill someone any more than you would rape someone. You're just not that liberated.
[20:59] <@SpeedRcrX> :/
[21:00] <@SpeedRcrX> No. In real life, I'm not a f[BLEEP]king PSYCOPATH like you, Jed.
[21:00] <// J_Daito //> But you're worried about your variable gamer morality?
[21:00] <Mizunomics01> If I could interject?
[21:00] <@SpeedRcrX> Please Ami, I need a f[BLEEP]king sane mind at work here.
[21:01] <// J_Daito //> LOL you're talking to miss "I has an army of killer Gundams" here
[21:01] * Mizunomics01 ignores Jedite.
[21:01] <Mizunomics01> Haruka-san, you are a tomboy.
[21:01] <@SpeedRcrX> What does that have to do with anything?
[21:02] <Mizunomics01> Psychologically, you act in a manner consistent with males in many cases.
[21:03] <Mizunomics01> Most males grow up in a culture of "good guys vs bad guys" where one is encouraged to roleplay violence, for example in the form of "cowboys and indians" or "cops and robbers."
[21:03] <Mizunomics01> Grand Theft Auto, while an inversion of the formula, is still rooted in the same basis.
[21:04] <Mizunomics01> You've spent your whole life "knowing the difference" between good acts and bad, and I would dare say-- well no, I believe you said it earlier-- I note you do believe that other people know the difference.
[21:04] <@SpeedRcrX> Right.
[21:04] <Mizunomics01> Rape, on the other hand, is not a subject that one contemplates in youth.
[21:05] <Mizunomics01> By the time one is generally old enough (post-pubescent) to understand the full complexities and ramifications of the violations inherent in rape, one is also emotionally mature enough to absolutely abhor it.
[21:06] <Mizunomics01> (assuming a normal pattern of enculturation, of course)
[21:07] <Mizunomics01> It's not something you are ever made "to get used to" via roleplay as in cops and robbers, and in fact you are expressly informed that it is a heinous act.
[21:07] <Mizunomics01> So, with that in mind, your mental duality is perhaps a bit more excusable.
[21:08] <@SpeedRcrX> I think I follow that
[21:08] * // J_Daito // is away: boring
[21:09] <@SpeedRcrX> But I feel like
[21:09] <@SpeedRcrX> if I can condemn a rape sim
[21:09] <@SpeedRcrX> I should be able to do the same to GTA
[21:09] <@SpeedRcrX> but I don't feel guilty about GTA at all
[21:09] <Mizunomics01> Rape is a much more personal, intimate horror to contemplate.
[21:10] <Mizunomics01> Not to diminish the horror of murder at all, but there is a quick finality to a gunshot that rape lacks.
[21:10] <Mizunomics01> You can imagine the torture and the pain and it sickens you more.
[21:11] <Mizunomics01> (I should think)
[21:11] <@SpeedRcrX> I dunno.
[21:11] <@SpeedRcrX> But like
[21:11] <@SpeedRcrX> whenever Jack Thompson opened his damn mouth about GTA I was ready to punch him in the face, but when it comes to this game, if he wanted to ban it I'd be right there with him.
[21:12] <Mizunomics01> Well, Haruka-san, we're human beings. We make complex choices that are not always consistent, and I think, for the first time, you have met one laid bare.
[21:12] <@SpeedRcrX> Am I a hypocrite?
[21:13] <FireFly_9> OH PLEASE ask that again :)
[21:13] <@SpeedRcrX> F[BLEEP]K. YOU. 'TARU :P
[21:13] <FireFly_9> heh
[21:13] <FireFly_9> (but seriously I am glad you are at least thinking about these things, Haruka-poppa.
[21:14] <@SpeedRcrX> But it makes my head hurt ><
[21:14] * FireFly_9 goes to say something, but lets it go. This ONE time.
[21:14] <@SpeedRcrX> Whadda you think 'Taru?
[21:14] <FireFly_9> Honestly?
[21:16] <FireFly_9> I think that shoot-em-up property destroying rampages are just extensions of the human need to vent stress, and as long as it's confined to the digital realm, and the simulation doesn't get so realistic as to where you are actually torturing someone, it's fine. A zombie is a plank is a granny is a trashcan.
[21:17] <FireFly_9> But a rape sim where you have a woman begging and crying for you to stop, and then you continue on, is no stress relief. It's a sadistic cruelty simulator. It's already reached the level where you're living and breathing it. Because once you've decided to - pardon my french-- "get your rocks off" to this, you've geared your whole mind and nervous system into that same state of arousal as if it were a real person.
[21:18] <FireFly_9> You're ogling that woman as if she was real. She affects yuour body in the same way a real one does. And then you make her cry, and hurt. and rape her. That's wrong, and depraved.
[21:19] <FireFly_9> In GTA, you're just breaking things and probbaly not thinking about it too much. It's still too far removed from the reality of the everyday. It's not close up and intimate.
[21:19] <FireFly_9> That's what I think, anyway.
[21:20] <@SpeedRcrX> Hotaru
[21:20] <FireFly_9> ?
[21:20] <@SpeedRcrX> Domo.
[21:20] <@SpeedRcrX> I don't feel like... a murder-loving ba[BLEEP]rd anymore
[21:20] <FireFly_9> (but you are)
[21:21] <@SpeedRcrX> (f[BLEEP]k off :P) XD
[21:21] <FireFly_9> hehe
[21:21] <FireFly_9> Glad to help :)
[21:21] * FireFly_9 is away 
[21:35] *** Sun Feb 15 2009 - LOGGING STOP ***




 






Rape and murder are crimes, and not ones you can accidentally find yourself committing. They're based on conscious decisions: intent. It is the person that makes this decision, not some simulation (regardless of HOW realistic it may be). Regardless, GTA and its ilk provide entertainment, rape games and their like are based on fetishes. It's hardly comparing like vs like.

Also, rape games are inherently stupid and people who pay MONEY for them are worse still.

Haak [e-mail] • 02/16/09 07:35pm

While I agree with your thought process here, I am unsure if the game is what you're describing. From some of what I've read, this whole "rape" aspect, for the particular game in question, was overblown in the UK by a politician who could have very little familiarity with Japanese video games. Now I agree that there are certainly games where you can be as sick and twisted as you desire...but they are unlikely to be exported.

Raihosha • 02/16/09 05:29pm

This made me stop and think. I think it's also the difference of detail -- sure, in GTA you kill people, but it's not exactly premeditated torture with multiple camera angles as you slice them to bits inch by inch. But for the most part? Yeah, you're right. It's a difference of intent. Rape hentai games ARE more of a "simulator" than an FPS or GTA, whatever GTA qualifies as.

i.e. yaaay you're right!

starcat • 02/16/09 04:36am



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